Mohammed HijabHey, you, are you wasting your time on social media again? Your brothers and sisters in Islam net from Norway are establishing a masjid, a dawah center. Establishing a masjid to convey the message of Islam is one of the best deeds a Muslim can do. There's a huge need for it in Norway. You know this and I know this. So that makes the reward even greater. So give generously and Allah will give you even more.
Mohammed HijabHow are you guys doing? And welcome to another episode of the MH podcast. And I'm joined with a very special guest, a person who's been online and, um, you know, making all kinds of social commentaries. Actually had our back a few times, which we have to be grateful for and thank Maria, the Muslim mom. Uh, am I saying it right? Is it Maria or Maria? How do you, how do you pronounce your name?
The Muslim MumYeah, Maria is, is Pakistani. Maria.
Mohammed HijabMaria. Okay.
The Muslim MumYeah. Mashallah. Yeah. Maria. Maria. I mean, do you mind? But is it, does it, does it matter or
Mohammed HijabNot at all. I don't mean to at all. Doesn't matter.
The Muslim MumDoesn't matter. Whatever you're comfortable with.
Mohammed HijabSo I was going to say that like, you know, recently we were talking about dawah in general and one of the things that keeps coming up is the need for female dawah people like yourself doing a great job, an excellent, uh, job online doing the kind of getting involved, I would call it in the, in the discourse itself, right?
The Muslim MumUm, how have you found that from your experience? How have you found basically doing dawah? What's the reception been like for from women, from men, from Muslims, from non-Muslims?
The Need for Female Dawah
The Muslim MumI mean, firstly, like you said, I think the need for non-compromising, traditional Muslim women to do dawah is vital for future generations of sisters. Right. Recently, we've heard a lot online about how dawah is male-dominated and prejudicial against Muslim women. The term "Dawah Bros" was created by Islamophobes. And sadly, it's been adopted by Muslim feminist types. And we see most as we saw most recently with someone like drama between brother Ali and his wife where they were targeted.
The Muslim MumAnd I think that's why we need female role models that are less influenced by Western values and more so by Islamic values. The mothers of the believers who were the wives of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. They were not only role models for women. They were also da'iyat. And that's who sisters need to emulate, not Western feminists. In this day and age of so-called female empowerment, there are close to, I think, you know, zero decent female role models for Muslim women to look up to compared to the time of our beloved prophet.
The Muslim MumAnd because of the modern online era that we live in, I feel like Muslim women have to participate in public dawah to combat ideologies like liberalism, feminism that are leading many sisters astray. Unfortunately, men are just not relatable to women like we are to each other. And the same applies to men. They prefer to hear from other men. So if we ignore, you know, the problem of sisters being misguided, I think it's a recipe for disaster for future generations.
The Muslim MumIf a sister who is true, a man explains why certain rulings in Islam, um, that the West may perceive as not being favorable to women are fair, then it lands much better than if a man was to say it. I mean, I know, brother, I believe you have two daughters. I have three, mashallah. So the older our daughters get, the more they're in need of solid Islamic female role models, especially if they're being raised in the West.
The Muslim MumSo, but then in saying that, I do think that we need some sort of training facility for sisters to prepare them to give dawah appropriately, to conduct themselves properly and to protect themselves from fitna that comes with, you know, excessive attention and chasing popularity online, which can corrupt women even more so than men at times. I have many women that come to me, um, and that are can relate to me, can talk to me about certain issues. I have women that would rather speak to me than speak to a man. Um, so I think it's definitely necessary especially in this day and age.
Mohammed HijabOkay. No, that was a good answer. Very comprehensive. I appreciate the detail there. Like, okay, I want more kind of personal input from like your experience.
The Muslim MumLike you obviously probably get messages, you probably have interactions with people, personal interactions. I don't know what, um, area you're based in. You sound like in Scotland or something like that if that's correct.
Mohammed HijabI get a lot for some reason. People think I'm Irish.
The Muslim MumYeah. Yeah. That's not the Irish accent. But yes, as I was saying, so for example, like from your, you know, from your experience, what has been your reception? Have you looked at your demographics, for example, on YouTube and on other platforms? Have you, what's the male female disparity there?
Mohammed HijabIt's actually split. I do get a lot of men that watch just as much as women and I think it's maybe because of the content that I put out. At the very beginning, my content was very much about motherhood, about parenting and then with everything that happened with Israel and Palestine, geopolitical stuff just naturally became part of, um, what I started.
The Muslim MumThat's interesting. So do you know what the numbers are? Do you have you looked at that, the
Mohammed HijabNot recently? No, I haven't looked at the numbers recently.
The Muslim MumIs it similar? Is it like 50?
Mohammed HijabIt's very similar. Yeah, it's a very 50-50 split. Even at the beginning, a lot of the stuff that we used to, that I used to talk about was very much
The Muslim MumFeminist stuff and pro-male stuff and very much about absent fathers and things like that, which a lot of women again don't talk about online. So, I think that yes, I do appeal to women because I am a woman, but I do also talk about very male
Mohammed HijabIssues. Yeah.
The Muslim MumFrom a woman's perspective. So, I think that's why men can also relate, but then women sometimes women do listen to that as well. And I think that's also important is having someone to talk about male issues but being a woman because women are going to listen to women, right? Um,
Mohammed HijabNo, that's interesting like because as you've, I think you've, you've said it right and there are some women that will listen to other men who have got more of a compassionate approach as well. So for, for example, like man, I don't know if you've probably heard of him, right?
The Muslim MumYeah. He's, he's very popular with the female audience or and nomin he's, he's obviously popular with both these guys are like popular with them
Mohammed HijabLike because their approach is very much, um, actually I would say properly compassionate, you know, they are compassionate and, and that's why a lot of people like them. Now it's been used like poratively like, you know, stuff like that. But no, honestly, it's just sometimes I, I would, I watch their kind of shows and stuff with my, my son or my daughter. This is the kind of thing I would watch in like Ramadan, I'd watch. I wouldn't watch a Muhammad hijab character. And that's really the, the truth of it is that a lot of our way of kind of speaking to people is quite assertive, overly assertive, very combative, and it's just really hard for someone like me to shake it off.
Mohammed HijabSo, a person's got to know their limitations. And, and I just came to the conclusion essentially that if we want good role models as you mentioned for our daughters and stuff like that, don't seem as if they're prejudicial towards women and they can't be because they are women themselves, then we do need women in, in, in the field especially now like Tik Tok has become a big thing as you mentioned Ali was going back and forth with a particular couple of Tik Tokers and stuff like that and, um, you know, there's a lot of women now I feel like that are on Tik Tok. Do you, do you think, you know, the reason why it seems like a lot of Muslim women are spending a lot of time on the short form content on like Tik Tok on Instagram? That's my, um, perception of it. Am I right to think that or is was that not correct?
TikTok Islam and Feminist Tendencies
The Muslim MumYeah, I, I would agree with that. Like, you know, I think if women are you're having children, you're, you're spending a lot of time sitting feeding children, you know, a lot of the time you're scrolling on your phone. In the evening we find men and women but yes, more so women are sitting and scrolling through Instagram, scrolling through Tik Tok, making Tik Tok videos about their life, um, wanting to show the perfect life. Um, and it is unfortunately seeping into our, um, as well and it's leading women astray because they are following non-Muslim women or Muslim women that are maybe not as Islamically in inclined as other Muslim women. So I think it depends who they're following, what they're following. There's a lot of, you know, the verge online for Muslim women as well right now. That seems to be a massive thing. Beauty and how you look and things like that. So yeah, unfortunately it is taking over, um, everything.
Mohammed HijabSo in addition to like having role models that are females, what would you say is the solution to this kind of problem? Cause it seems to be a particular problem especially for younger women, Muslim women in the West. So how, what would you say the solution is for that aside from the role models?
The Muslim MumHow to stop, um, them being corrupted? Is that what you mean? Or
Mohammed HijabNo, I mean like whether it's just like as maybe providing a counterbalance or or a program or how would how do you counterbalance this this current of now females looking to the algorithm on Instagram or looking to the algorithm on, uh, Tik Tok in order to find some kind of inspiration and then that leading them to feminist directions or becoming feminist orientated.
The Muslim MumIf I'm honest, it starts with parents. If it starts, it starts in the family home. Obviously, if we're talking about young children, even children, even teenagers, right? So, if your teenager is has got a phone and is looking at stuff online already, then unfortunately, you have maybe failed as a parent. They shouldn't have a phone. You should be monitoring what they're looking at. They should have Islamic values from their home. Of course, you know, you go to mainstream schools. Again, that's something that we can combat. You can go to Islamic schools. You can homeschool your children. It's all about what's happening in the family home. What are you teaching your children? What are you putting into your children? What path are you leading them down? If you're leading them down a good path, then they're going to follow that path. If you're not leading them at all, or if you yourself are not following the right path, then they're going to follow the wrong path as well. So, I think it does start with the parents in the family home. And if you're looking at women that are older, um, it unfortunately it takes everybody a certain time to want to turn and look a different way. If if you're in your 30s and you're looking at feminists online, how do you change that? You you just have to have more women that are speaking about dawah, speaking about the right things. You need to sort of, um, combat the feminist stuff with the stuff about Islam.
Mohammed HijabThat's a good observation. So let me ask you this then. Um, what do you think some of the main reasons psychological or otherwise? You mentioned some of the upbringing related kind of stuff, but what are some of the main psychological reasons why a lot of Muslim women if they don't identify, uh, openly with feminism because a lot of them don't want to identify openly with feminism but will adopt a lot of the the values of it knowingly or unknowingly consciously or unconsciously. What do you think some of the main psychological reasons are for that?
The Muslim MumFor adopting feminism
Mohammed HijabOr Yeah. Or like fe feminist tendencies or and incorporating it with like an Islamic worldview or amalgamating it with that. What do you think some of the reasons are for that?
The Muslim MumIt's so interesting because I, I actually, I don't know because I am not like that at all. So I find it hard to understand why a woman would honestly I, I, I do, I do struggle to, um, understand myself even being a woman because I follow those ideologies. I've never have even when I wasn't fully, you know, when I wasn't following Islam like I am now. Even then I was never the feminist type. Um, so I genuinely don't understand why a woman thinks it could be money, it could be attention, it could be following the, the herd. You know, we always we say we're all sheep and you either follow the herd or you don't. And it could be fear of being
Mohammed HijabThe one that's missing out or the one that's not part of the in crowd. That's that's what I see it as. And and to me, and I hope people don't take offense, but to me, all those things are quite shallow. And I think if you want to put yourself first and you are come away from the crowd, you actually see that they're all following the wrong thing and that they're all leading each other down a path that's not going to go anywhere good. So I honestly don't understand it myself because I've never been one to follow on that path.
Mohammed HijabI mean, um, a lot of it now is I don't know it's I might be looking at things, uh, in a skewed manner being a man being living living in London living like seeing certain case studies speaking to certain people, but that's why I think this is healthy for me to have this conversation with you and for you to give me your insight as well, which is that I get a sense that within the subgroup of like Muslim women, right? There is a, um, a feeling that doesn't it's a, it's a different kind of feeling sometimes a psychological feeling of fear of missing out or is kind of like comparing themselves with the dominant female population in the Western world and then maybe seeing the husband as an obstacle to that and then growing resentment to the husband as a result
The Muslim MumAnd hence a lot of the time where you see that you mentioned in the beginning like all these, uh, cases of the Muslim woman like holding the children as a kind of a hostage or something like that or not, um, essentially giving the rights of the father to the father and hurting the the the child by so doing. We see that a lot now, um, within Muslim women. So what is I want to understand if I've understood it correctly. Is there a feeling within some not all of them of course, but some Muslim women that are more inclined to feminism. Is there a feeling that they're missing out in terms of compare like compared to their non-Muslim counterparts and does that then translate to resentment towards the Muslim husband which causes all kinds of issues or do you think that's a bit of an overanalysis?
Mohammed HijabWell, it's also who's shouting the loudest, right? So, who's shouting the loudest right now is mainstream media, social media. What is the biggest thing? So, that's what they're following. That's what you're going to base. And again, it comes down to how were they parented? What was in their home growing up? Um, we find that a lot of Muslim women that do take the children away from the fathers, how were they grown up? Do they have a good relationship with their own father? Do they understand that that's an important relationship to have? Why are they damaging the children and thinking that they're punishing the father when they're actually punishing the children? Um, and I do think psychologically sometimes I think it's
The Muslim MumIt's shaitan, right? Is a lot of it is about lack of Islam in your in your heart in your house. Um, you don't understand the religion properly. A lot of Muslim women maybe don't even have that resentment towards their husbands. Maybe they actually have that resentment towards a religion. And this is me being honest. Right.
Mohammed HijabThat's interesting. That's that's a deep one. See, it's a good thing you're saying it, not me. That's Yeah. Go on. Tell me why you think that is then.
The Muslim MumWell, if if I'm honest, right, in Islam right now, what are women doing? They've got their hijabs off, right? They're wearing next to nothing. They're covered in makeup. They're they're they're not even getting married properly now, right?
Mohammed HijabThey're having relationships outside of marriage first and then going to their parents and going, "Listen, I've met someone and this is I want to have a relationship. This is how I want to get married to."
The Muslim MumYeah. To be fair, men are doing a lot of that stuff as well to create some balance. And of course, you know.
Mohammed HijabYes. Right. Okay. So, let's that that's a good point. So, so both both genders are doing that. And who are they following? They're following the non-Muslims. So, and a lot of the time they're seeing Islam as restricting them from doing those things. So, they will pick and choose. Ramadan comes 30 days a year, right? Let's put hijab on. Let's pray. Let's do our fast. Ramadan finishes, they go back to doing normal what they're doing. I've seen many cases like that, too. And yes, when they do get married, if they have a h if they get married to a husband that is following Islam and that wants to bring up the children a certain way and they obviously are feeling like they're being oppressed. Now, what's that one that, um, people say that it says in the Quran, you have to obey your husband and that takes that that riles women up, but they don't actually look in what's behind that. What does a husband have to do for his wife? What does a wife have to do for their husband? What are the rights and responsibilities? You actually have to know these things before you can take one line and just get mad and think that. And the same for the husbands, right? You can't shout at a woman and say, "You have to obey me." If you're telling her to do the wrong things, he has to also be follow.
The Muslim MumSorry, I'm getting too heated now. I'm talking too much.
Mohammed HijabThis is This is Yeah, this is You can say what you want. I mean, this is completely safe space. You can say what you like. People have had enough of hearing what I have to say anyway. Even the men have men and women. Everyone is a we need to hear uh new people. But as I mentioned,
The Muslim MumWhat do you think? Can I ask you what you think is a solution for helping these types of women? What do you think? What do you think from a man's point of view?
Men's Responsibility and Dawah Bros
Mohammed HijabI would have to say that there's a lot of the responsibility that actually is on the man. Um, in fact, probably the lion share of it because a lot of the reason why, uh, women resort to that kind of stuff is because, um, it's it sounds cliché to say this, but it's because a man is not upholding his own end of the things like, you know, uh, Islam has a very strict protocol on provision and protection, you know, and but but back in the days, this is how I see it, right? Like back in the days, a woman would would have to respect a a medieval man say for the sake of argument because she sees him at least participating in the training for a war if he doesn't engage in the war himself, right?
The Muslim MumAnd knows that he can be called at any time in a conscription format to have to essentially put his life on the line for the wife and the children in a way that would never have to happen now in Pax Americana where basically especially the Western Muslim man it doesn't have to engage in any kind of physical confrontation that would actually mean, uh, that their life could be in danger. I mean, the prophet wasallam as an example, right? He had, you know, he had 13, uh, wars that he participated in at the age of 50 something. I mean, I consider this to be a tremendous thing and people don't realize how significant that is. Once or twice a year, you're putting your life on the line. Like, so when you go back to your to your wives or you your wife as a man who does stuff like that, then she has an automatic respect for you, which now a man has to work harder in order to obtain.
The Muslim MumSo there's an there's a historical element of this which I think, um, we can't actually do anything about because obviously the the war element especially with the genocides and stuff we don't have an outlet to go to war in that in that strict sense that classical sense, but there are still things that Muslim men have to do for for the Muslim woman which they are failing to do. For example, I I've heard many times a community that, you know, a man is not forcing the woman to work, but essentially putting her in a position where she has to contribute financially to the household, right? Or that he's giving her a double burden. So, on the one hand, she's working and outside and then she's coming home and she's actually got kids that she's looking after as well. All of this stuff actually gives a woman a justifiable Islamic right to feel resentment because she's her her Islamic rights are being infringed upon.
The Muslim MumAnd someone in that position has, I think, a different case to make than a woman, for example, who's being influenced by a Tik Tocker, is meant to be an educated woman, but she's going on Tik Tok and she's listening to, with all due respect, someone who's probably uneducated or probably unaccredited and they're just listening to them and they're feeling into their emotional biases that are already there and they have a weak conviction in their faith and they don't actually believe in Islam fully. And maybe if if you if you had to give it as a percentage, they believe in Islam as a matter of 50% or 45% or something like that or or 55%. There's a difference between a woman who's gone who's actually had her Islamic rights being, uh, taken away from her or whatever and she's now responding in a psychological way. The psychological way may be the same as the second category of woman for the sake of argument. But that second category of woman is a spiritually more is a weaker kind and is therefore a lesser type from the Islamic perspective than the first example that we've given. So there's I think myriad reasons but a lot of it does fall on on men. A lot of it does and and we have to take responsibility for that.
The Muslim MumAnd I look even even with the whole dawah bros and dawah boys, uh, you know, thing. I think there is some truth in that the criticisms actually, you know,
The Muslim MumBecause and I've already said that before especially like I can only speak on my own kind of behalf by saying that I think that to be fair a lot of the culture wars and the gender wars that have taken place with the red pill movement all that kind of stuff we have gotten involved in that you know and sometimes in a detrimental way in in a way that the tone is a little bit too alienating to women and stuff so they may feel as if people that are meant to be religious spokespeople, yeah, are, you know, like um alienating them with their tone and their attitudes and stuff like that. And a lot of that stuff is legitimate. So, you know, there there's a balance to be made, I think, in the analysis. But in the final analysis, I think that we need to, um, appreciate also that there are very specific female struggles that we need to have very specific female, um, kind of oriented answers for and that's why these conversations are very useful to me.
Mohammed HijabYeah, definitely. I agree. And I, if I'm honest, I think if a woman is living with a husband that is giving her all of her rights and is fulfilling his rights, I don't see her going down the wrong path or looking on TikTok and following the feminist path. Because you're right, if a Muslim if a Muslim man is leading his house the way that they should be led, there shouldn't be issues in that in that home. And as long as she knows before they get married what her rights are and what she's supposed to be doing, then there shouldn't be issues. Um, yeah. And I'll be honest, I mean, what you were saying about the whole Dawah bro stuff is it's disheartening to see Muslims publicly, you know, beefing and and fighting online and we see that a lot just now. And I think even historically what you were saying, you know, historically back in the day, they would fight wars. If we were all united as an ummah, maybe we could fight and we could, you know, combat everything just now, but we're not united. We can't even unite with each other online. You know, I'm not going to mention names here because I don't want to come across as taking sides because I haven't to be honest, I haven't followed everything so extensively to the point where I would know the full context of what's been said. But personally, I think that these types of things should be handled behind the scenes. And there's since there's so much hatred towards Islam and Muslims online, I think we should be united, especially in the stressful time that we're in as an ummah. If there are disagreements where people feel that certain statements have been made publicly, then they should be corrected publicly but respectfully. I think once eagles get involved and we've seen many issues right now, eagles get involved starts getting personal. People start taking shots at each other. It becomes very messy. People are invading each other's space. And of course, you know, people are going to make mistakes and maybe say things online that aren't accurate, but why not correct yourself or apologize rather than doubling down on the inaccuracies. And I also feel we get to a point sometimes where the back and forth is so disrespectful and it gets so out of hand that there's no way back. And at that point, there should be then be a mediator, maybe someone of a higher authority that should step in, get individuals on a call, maybe set up a meeting to smooth things over. You know, you could there's so many things that we could do. I mean, my brother Ali was having issues with the Muslim sisters. I got in touch with the Muslim sisters to have a discussion to smooth things over.
The Muslim MumOh, really?
Mohammed HijabHow did that go? How did that go?
The Muslim MumI was met with silence. So, you know, but you have to try our we all have to try our part, but it's embarrassing. We're embarrassing ourselves, right? There's also major fitna right now like you said with the gender war stuff and I don't agree with it but it just it gives the anti-Muslim crowd more ammunition against us like they're just laughing at us. You know, Muslim women who support Muslim men and vice versa because
Mohammed HijabThe people who want to divide us are not on our side despite them pretending to care about women's rights. It's it's never too late to resolve things and move on especially when you know people have been friendly before. I'm sure you can, you know, be friendly again, but you know, may Allah guide all of us and them, um, that are going through these issues.
Unity in Islam
Mohammed HijabWell, I mean, what you're saying is very Islamic and I think it's something that we kind of gloss over a lot of the time when we read the Quran or listen to it, which is verses like that hold together to the rope of Allah and do not be divided. And, um, this is a key verse because it includes everything, right? It includes tribes, it includes, uh, sects, it includes, uh, men and women, it includes races, it includes ethnicities. It's very clear to me that Allah wants us as Muslims to unite. There have been attempts by some groups to try and undermine this verse essentially and try to override it with, uh, with interpretations which essentially favor that, uh, you know, one it has to be one understanding, etc., etc., which I don't think classical scholars have believed in that while, you know, Allah says in the Quran that come together in come together in piety and god consciousness, you know, or goodness and god god consciousness and do not come together in animosity and so come together this is actually it's clearly a generic statement it's come together it even you could argue it includes non-Muslims if there was an issue to do with goodness that you can come together with a non-Muslim on this issue.
Mohammed HijabSo, um, the fact that men and women have to now understand that the differences among them are not as as, uh, important or they should not be, you know, emphasized as much as the similarities between them. Okay, is something very important. The in the beginning of the genocide when when the Palestine thing was going on, there was this incredible unity actually there was the became awake for a little bit but then it people started to get tired of it and now they've gone back to their kind of original position and the gender wars has started to kind of, you know, become a little bit more relevant again, um, but I think it's we saw we we all understood the need
The Muslim MumIs it working still? I can't see it.
Mohammed HijabOh, okay. We all understood the need at that time like in the very beginning of the genocide like to unite and to put our differences aside, etc. But like now because of the gender wars and the culture wars and whatever that's come it's become a bit more relevant again so that people are going back to their original position. So it's it's knowing that okay actually when when push comes to shove people don't actually care. The Westerners, the feminists don't actually care that much about, um, something. Okay, now it's it's gone. It's gone.
The Muslim MumThere's the setup is all like, you know, there's a tacky setup here that needs to be.
Mohammed HijabIs it too technical? Is that what the problem is?
The Muslim MumYeah. See, yeah. So, I was saying, you know, it's, um,
Mohammed HijabSo as I was saying, we understood the need then and then we went back into original positions. So we have to realize that actually the feminists, the Western feminists and Western liberals, etc., they don't actually care about you as much as they think you do. Look, think about it. All these men and women and children were being killed and they don't really care that much. And there are some obviously in the left wing that came on the protests and all that kind of stuff, but by and large there wasn't that kind of an outrage that we would have expected when you consider the situation at hand. So coming together is a very important thing. Realizing that okay, these are different divisions. I was I don't know if you saw this. I was shocked and appalled when I saw some of the Somali landers come out and wave the Israeli flag. It was one of the most repugnant things I've ever seen in my life.
The Muslim MumI'm not saying all of them. Of course, a lot of them. I know them personally. They disavow the thing. I mean, it shows I'm so surprised that you've put your tribal identity above and beyond, you know, the it's
Mohammed HijabYeah. The tribal identity above and beyond the Islamic identity. It's so shocking when people put like it it's a cringeworthy and embarrassing thing. It's one of the most embarrassing and humiliating things any Muslims have ever done in the last 50 years. And someone will say, "But you don't, you know, you don't condemn the UAE and you don't condemn the the Egyptians and the governments and all these people." We're not talking about governments here. We're not. We are talking I have never seen in in Egyptian history. Yeah. As a person who's kind of follows the news in Arab, never seen in Pakistani history people in Islamabad with an Israeli flag waving it around for whatever reason. It's never happened. This is a a very specific tribal disease that that is more pronounced in that area of the world than probably any other area of the world. And it's something the ummah has to look at
The Muslim MumBecause if if we try and deny the fact that this, uh, some members of the Ishak tribe or the Somali land tribe have betrayed the ummah, they have betrayed the ummah in that way and we say okay what about this government that government? There's no I've never seen people in a Muslim majority country wave the Israeli flag and do I've never seen it. The labor. I've never seen it in my life. Maybe someone can show me a couple of things. But crowds of people in Hergas are doing that and then some people doing it here in Birmingham. It's a shame and it's an embarrassment. And in the same way that that's a shame and embarrassment women who are Muslim or men he even who are Muslim right and they are you know born raised in the west that they put like an ideology that is the knowledge production of which is a Western white knowledge colonial knowledge production they put that identity the first accept that identity and then they put it above Islam it could be argued to be worse than what we saw in Somali land it's even worse than that because at least with that the tribe tribe is is an African tribe with this other thing is is you're taking the colonial ideology and you're making that your identity.
Mohammed HijabIt's the embarrassment of all mother of all embarrassments. And I'll be honest with you, Maria,
The Muslim MumI don't want to be ranting too much because we want to hear more of your voice. Um, as well obviously that's the whole problem is that men are talking too much here, you know, as but you know like I developed a particular aversion towards feminism, uh, when I first got into the dawah. I got into dawah maybe 10 years